нужен усилитель
fadler

25.10.08 23:57
ну что идей совсем нет. Любая самая шальная мысля. Я тут думаю - может сделать переброску MBL ? А может попробовать проф-усь?
ShyWorm

26.10.08 09:14
Re:
fadler писал(а):ну что идей совсем нет. Любая самая шальная мысля. Я тут думаю - может сделать переброску MBL ? А может попробовать проф-усь?
Загляните на SoundEX.ru, там Вам толковее подскажут..
Доктор Ватсон

26.10.08 11:50
Форумчанин Алексей(Овен) слушал связку Dynaudio Confidence C2 и Primare pre30/a32,попробуйте у него узнать.
Пы Сы: Надеюсь он простит меня за наводку.
Пы Сы: Надеюсь он простит меня за наводку.
fadler

26.10.08 20:25
ну неинтересно ставить primare pre30/a32. я могу заказать все , что захочу , кроме krell, soulution audio,manley ,vtl, топовых meridian. подкиньте идейку только
Alexey (Oven)

26.10.08 20:30
Re:
Доктор Ватсон писал(а):Форумчанин Алексей(Овен) слушал связку Dynaudio Confidence C2 и Primare pre30/a32,попробуйте у него узнать.
Пы Сы: Надеюсь он простит меня за наводку.
низачто

Примары тут принято обгаживать, особенно в этом преуспел автор ветки

fadler

26.10.08 20:50
у primare ухудшелось качество сборки, а я хочу продать клиенту товар и быть полностью уверенным в том, что ближайшие лет 5 у него ничего не сломается.
поэтому и ищу хорошо звучащую надежную технику ( может и себе когда-нибудь куплю)
поэтому и ищу хорошо звучащую надежную технику ( может и себе когда-нибудь куплю)
Доктор Ватсон

26.10.08 21:05
Плинтусы,Левинсоны,Акуфазы,Корды,Грифоны
RYM

27.10.08 22:36
to fadler:
вас интересуют интегральники или связки пред + мощник?... впрочем, это не столь важно; предлагаю посмотреть из Accustic Arts, Audionet, Octave - там есть из чего выбрать
вас интересуют интегральники или связки пред + мощник?... впрочем, это не столь важно; предлагаю посмотреть из Accustic Arts, Audionet, Octave - там есть из чего выбрать

fadler

28.10.08 16:26
ИНТЕРЕСНЕЕ ПРЕД+МОЩ - НО ПОКА У НАС КРИЗИС ( В ГОЛОВАХ) Я ДУМАЮ НИЧЕГО НЕ ПРИШЛЮТ
RYM

28.10.08 23:50
у предложенных мною фирм есть достойные преды и мощники: транзисторные (Audionet, Accustic Arts), ламповые+гибридные (Octave) - на любой вкус - всё упирается в наличие звонкой монеты... 

Александр Карелин

29.10.08 00:41
Re:
RYM писал(а):Accustic Arts
+1
Alexey (Oven)

29.10.08 09:33
Re:
Александр Карелин писал(а):RYM писал(а):Accustic Arts
+1
моя новая диофильская мечта. особенно с новым драйвером 2 - зверюга. Мощник с индексом 3 не должен испытывать проблем с с4
fadler

30.10.08 12:04
А вы не тот ли Александр Карелин у которого года 3-4 назад был Bryston. Если да , то
как вам связка bp26+4b-sst
как вам связка bp26+4b-sst
fadler

01.11.08 22:45
сегодня вернули Parasound jc1/jc2 (пред и два мощника) . может быть, завтра поставлю их к С4
Александр Карелин

05.11.08 01:30
Re:
fadler писал(а):А вы не тот ли Александр Карелин у которого года 3-4 назад был Bryston. Если да , то
как вам связка bp26+4b-sst
преды Брайстона мне не нравятся... мощняки одни из лучших АВ-шников
fadler

06.11.08 18:47
Один АЛЕФовец мне говорил, что у Bryston-a балансные только усилители мощности, а преды - нет, те. псевдобаланс
fadler

07.11.08 22:43
как я уже писал, esoteric p05/d05 + mark levinson 331 + dynaudio confidence c4 плохо играют моего любимого исполнителя Burzum. очень резкая гитара, и ,вообще, слушать невозможно. вопросы те же: кто виноват и что делать
Mamix

09.11.08 16:01
Цитата:
и что делать
1) брать лампы, 2)отказываться от Динаудо, 3)сменить музыку
fadler

09.11.08 21:03
1) лампа хорошо играет Бурзума, а вот Хеллхаммера ( Mayhem ) отработать не может
2) Dynaudio c4 надо было взгреть хорошенько ( 30 минут достаточно ) , и все стало хорошо ( ушла резкость и гул )
3) я не люблю аудиофильскую (читай - педосячую) музыку
2) Dynaudio c4 надо было взгреть хорошенько ( 30 минут достаточно ) , и все стало хорошо ( ушла резкость и гул )
3) я не люблю аудиофильскую (читай - педосячую) музыку
Mamix

10.11.08 02:28
А что такое Булхум, Хеллхамер - это брутал наверно? И что в вашем понимании есть "аудиофильская музыка" (просто интересно мнение)? Кроме сугубо тестовых дисков ничего другого на ум не приходит.
fadler

10.11.08 21:51
BURZUM и HELLHAMMER из MAYHEM - это легенды норвежского блэка. Один медленный, другой быстрый. а аудиофильская музыка - это (на мой взгляд) набор звуков иногда приятных, иногда нет, но все это издевательство над техникой.
s.gerus

11.11.08 02:12
Проблема - надо подобрать усилитель к Dynaudio Confidence C4. Источник можно взять Esoteric p05/d05. Усилы есть Primare pre30/a32, Mark Levinson 331. Пока мучаемся c Mark Levinson 331 + McIntosh 301 + McIntosh-ламповый пред
PS: Это не шутка - это головная боль
#######################################
http://www.dynaudio.com/d/systems/lines/confidence/confidence_data.php
8000 euro per Stück , 55 kg ,low sensivity
http://passlabs.com/products.htm
http://www.balanced.com/
http://www.electrocompaniet.no/ norwezskaja dlja norwezskoj muziki
http://www.moscode.com/
http://www.audioresearch.com/
Iskrenne wasch S.Gerus/Hamburg/
PS: Это не шутка - это головная боль
#######################################
http://www.dynaudio.com/d/systems/lines/confidence/confidence_data.php
8000 euro per Stück , 55 kg ,low sensivity
http://passlabs.com/products.htm
http://www.balanced.com/
http://www.electrocompaniet.no/ norwezskaja dlja norwezskoj muziki
http://www.moscode.com/
http://www.audioresearch.com/
Iskrenne wasch S.Gerus/Hamburg/
s.gerus

11.11.08 13:41
сегодня вернули Parasound jc1/jc2 (пред и два мощника) . может быть, завтра поставлю их к С4
http://www.parasound.com/halo/jc1.php
2 monoblocka 6000$ ( waschi kolonki 2 scht bolee 20 000 $)
http://www.parasound.com/halo/jc1.php
Prawo wibora za klientom ,no zamechanija sledujuschie -
1.18 beta-matched 15 amp, 60 MHz bipolar output transistors
Lutsche polewiki na wixode
2. Esli kolonki za 20 000$ ,to ysilitel (ili 2 monoblocka ) za 6000 ?
Posluschajte Pass x350.5 .nowaja cena w USA okolo 10000$ ,tam wse na polewikax
W Leningrdae on est' w dilerskoj seti . Organizujte proschluschiwanie
http://passlabs.com/pdf/product%20lit/x.5-xa.5-amps.pdf
Wot lampowaja alternativa ( est' li w Leningrade ne znaju )
http://www.graaf.it/maineng.htm
http://www.parasound.com/halo/jc1.php
2 monoblocka 6000$ ( waschi kolonki 2 scht bolee 20 000 $)
http://www.parasound.com/halo/jc1.php
Prawo wibora za klientom ,no zamechanija sledujuschie -
1.18 beta-matched 15 amp, 60 MHz bipolar output transistors
Lutsche polewiki na wixode
2. Esli kolonki za 20 000$ ,to ysilitel (ili 2 monoblocka ) za 6000 ?
Posluschajte Pass x350.5 .nowaja cena w USA okolo 10000$ ,tam wse na polewikax
W Leningrdae on est' w dilerskoj seti . Organizujte proschluschiwanie
http://passlabs.com/pdf/product%20lit/x.5-xa.5-amps.pdf
Wot lampowaja alternativa ( est' li w Leningrade ne znaju )
http://www.graaf.it/maineng.htm
fadler

11.11.08 14:14
спасибо за совет, к тому же я - дистрибьютор pass labs в россии
s.gerus

11.11.08 14:28
спасибо за совет, к тому же я - дистрибьютор pass labs в россии
##############################################################
? Zawisit ot zelanij klienta ,ego social#nnoj gruppi ,priwjazki k opredelnnoj muzike ,stilju zisni ...
Promoution -
Tak Klipsh Palladium swjazanni s BMW , Madrigal bil iswjazanni s Lexus
Zelanija klienta zakon dlja prodawza ,no
k real'no wisokomu kachestwu eto mozet imet' malo otnoschenija ....
Priglasite muzikantow iz Mariinskogo teatra i sprosite ix mnenie ....
" ... Bol'schinstwo iz naschix sluschatelej molodez', esli bi oni znali chto takoe
nastojaschaja muzika ,oni prischli bi w yzas ot otgo chto mi im tut igraem" -Richie Blackmore
Klasischeskaja opera po dinamike po kompleksnosti stawit naibol'schie trebowanija ,no w podawljauschem bol'schnistwe sluschaew pri prinjatii reschenieja o pokupke budut dominirowat'
sociologicheskie i swjazannie s nimi ekonomicheskie faktori
Polewiki bolee po xarakteristike priblizenni k lampam , Parasaund daze top modeli eto
affordable Hi-FI , ne c4 za 20 000$ ,Primare a32 http://www.primare.net/00002/00041/default.asp
scandinavi ,kak i muzika klienta , cena 5000$ ,srawnite s cenoj kolonok za 20 000$
##############
Esli klienta interessuet kachestwo montaza i nadeznost' ,to eto toze Pass .
Tam po 40 polewikow po 125 watt w plecho w kanale ,pri rasseiwaemoj oschnosti na odin
ne bolee 25 watt.
Wiberite model' kotoraja ispol#zuet polewiki w metallichekix korpusax(TO-3)
Iskrenne wasch Gerus/Hamburg,Tschastnnoe lizo/
##############################################################
? Zawisit ot zelanij klienta ,ego social#nnoj gruppi ,priwjazki k opredelnnoj muzike ,stilju zisni ...
Promoution -
Tak Klipsh Palladium swjazanni s BMW , Madrigal bil iswjazanni s Lexus
Zelanija klienta zakon dlja prodawza ,no
k real'no wisokomu kachestwu eto mozet imet' malo otnoschenija ....
Priglasite muzikantow iz Mariinskogo teatra i sprosite ix mnenie ....
" ... Bol'schinstwo iz naschix sluschatelej molodez', esli bi oni znali chto takoe
nastojaschaja muzika ,oni prischli bi w yzas ot otgo chto mi im tut igraem" -Richie Blackmore
Klasischeskaja opera po dinamike po kompleksnosti stawit naibol'schie trebowanija ,no w podawljauschem bol'schnistwe sluschaew pri prinjatii reschenieja o pokupke budut dominirowat'
sociologicheskie i swjazannie s nimi ekonomicheskie faktori
Polewiki bolee po xarakteristike priblizenni k lampam , Parasaund daze top modeli eto
affordable Hi-FI , ne c4 za 20 000$ ,Primare a32 http://www.primare.net/00002/00041/default.asp
scandinavi ,kak i muzika klienta , cena 5000$ ,srawnite s cenoj kolonok za 20 000$
##############
Esli klienta interessuet kachestwo montaza i nadeznost' ,to eto toze Pass .
Tam po 40 polewikow po 125 watt w plecho w kanale ,pri rasseiwaemoj oschnosti na odin
ne bolee 25 watt.
Wiberite model' kotoraja ispol#zuet polewiki w metallichekix korpusax(TO-3)
Iskrenne wasch Gerus/Hamburg,Tschastnnoe lizo/
fadler

11.11.08 23:08
Danke schoen.
s.gerus

11.11.08 23:49
Danke schoen.
Ne za chto ....
Wsex yspexow
S Lenigradskim priwetom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpwAuPTI6ks
http://www.vishneva.ru/
Ne za chto ....
Wsex yspexow
S Lenigradskim priwetom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpwAuPTI6ks
http://www.vishneva.ru/
s.gerus

12.11.08 00:34
http://www.genesisloudspeakers.com/g1p1.html
Eto Infinity IRS 5 w ispolnenii Genesys
Dumaju chto w Moskwe est * ...
Mozet i w SPB ,poskol*ku odnokomnatanaja kwartira s kom 17 metrow w SPB sejschas stoit 150 000$
Srawnite s Pass, Audio Research ,Graaf & s kopiej zapisej Mrawinskogo R. Wagnera
w Mariinskom teatre ili bass Mixailowa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGBtMcSOVQY&feature=related
na lampowom studijnom magnitofone ,takom kakom ispol*zowali
w 60 godax . Poluchite xoroschij zwuk ...
Dumaju kto-to yze eto srawnenie sdelal ...
Sudja po stoimosti kwartir w Moskwe
http://www.luxuryhomes.ru/page.php?id=332&action=view_item&itemid=32
Xoroschie kolonki dlja klassiki ,krome chistoti dolzni imet * 120 db na polnoj moschnosti
t.e pri chustwitel*nnosti 96 db/watt imet * RMS 400 watt +
No klient wsegda praw .
Eto Infinity IRS 5 w ispolnenii Genesys
Dumaju chto w Moskwe est * ...
Mozet i w SPB ,poskol*ku odnokomnatanaja kwartira s kom 17 metrow w SPB sejschas stoit 150 000$
Srawnite s Pass, Audio Research ,Graaf & s kopiej zapisej Mrawinskogo R. Wagnera
w Mariinskom teatre ili bass Mixailowa http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGBtMcSOVQY&feature=related
na lampowom studijnom magnitofone ,takom kakom ispol*zowali
w 60 godax . Poluchite xoroschij zwuk ...
Dumaju kto-to yze eto srawnenie sdelal ...
Sudja po stoimosti kwartir w Moskwe
http://www.luxuryhomes.ru/page.php?id=332&action=view_item&itemid=32
Xoroschie kolonki dlja klassiki ,krome chistoti dolzni imet * 120 db na polnoj moschnosti
t.e pri chustwitel*nnosti 96 db/watt imet * RMS 400 watt +
No klient wsegda praw .
s.gerus

12.11.08 01:11
Wi eto xotite slsuchat na kolonkax po 20000 $
BURZUM и HELLHAMMER из MAYHEM - это легенды норвежского блэка. Один медленный, другой быстрый. а аудиофильская музыка - это (на мой взгляд) набор звуков иногда приятных, иногда нет, но все это издевательство над техникой.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPJpfNE73fQ&feature=related
Poprobujte Electrovoice http://www.electrovoice.com/productfamilies/40.html
Tam est* po 130 db i bol*sche wmeste s ysilitelem klassa D ili H
Ili posmotrite chto ispol*zuet wasch kumir
Dannaja texnika toze imeet wisokoe kachestwo ,no tam zwuk budet
podkraschen . Wozmozno eto to chto wam nuzno
PASS X1000 ( 1000 wt na 8 ohm) wse eto peredast prekrasno ( ix mozno stawit* po 32 parallelno na 4 ohma ,no y nego net specificheskoj podkraski ,poskol*ku
on no negative feedback s bolee nizkim yrownem specificheskix garmonik
Iskrenne wasch S.Gerus / Hamburg/
BURZUM и HELLHAMMER из MAYHEM - это легенды норвежского блэка. Один медленный, другой быстрый. а аудиофильская музыка - это (на мой взгляд) набор звуков иногда приятных, иногда нет, но все это издевательство над техникой.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tPJpfNE73fQ&feature=related
Poprobujte Electrovoice http://www.electrovoice.com/productfamilies/40.html
Tam est* po 130 db i bol*sche wmeste s ysilitelem klassa D ili H
Ili posmotrite chto ispol*zuet wasch kumir
Dannaja texnika toze imeet wisokoe kachestwo ,no tam zwuk budet
podkraschen . Wozmozno eto to chto wam nuzno
PASS X1000 ( 1000 wt na 8 ohm) wse eto peredast prekrasno ( ix mozno stawit* po 32 parallelno na 4 ohma ,no y nego net specificheskoj podkraski ,poskol*ku
on no negative feedback s bolee nizkim yrownem specificheskix garmonik
Iskrenne wasch S.Gerus / Hamburg/
s.gerus

12.11.08 14:12
fadler

12.11.08 21:30
это скорее мне домой : Neva audio pra1 (пред), а мощник скорее Lab Gruppen ip1350
s.gerus

12.11.08 21:39
это скорее мне домой : Neva audio pra1 (пред), а мощник скорее Lab Gruppen ip1350
Ne korreliruet c4 ni po cene , ni po chustwitel'nnosti s muzikoj waschego klienta ...
S takoj chustwitel#nnostju i cenoj eto skoree kolnki dlja Jazza s ne bol'schoj dinamikoj (Diana Krall ?) i obladatelja kwartiri w stile post modern
Xotja wse mozet bit# .W sowetskoe wremja bili liza ,kotorie korowu w wanne na 9 etaze godami derzali ...
Klient wsegda praw ...
Mozet posmotrite kakie yiliteli iakustiku ispol'zujut poklonniki Deep Purple , Led Zeppelin ,Black Sabbath ,
Blackmore ,Dio ,Rainbow w 70 ...
I ot etogo popitas'ja ottolknutsja ? Dezibel tam ne men'sche , Golosa i instrumenti toze ne slabee ...
Zelaju yspexow
Ne korreliruet c4 ni po cene , ni po chustwitel'nnosti s muzikoj waschego klienta ...
S takoj chustwitel#nnostju i cenoj eto skoree kolnki dlja Jazza s ne bol'schoj dinamikoj (Diana Krall ?) i obladatelja kwartiri w stile post modern
Xotja wse mozet bit# .W sowetskoe wremja bili liza ,kotorie korowu w wanne na 9 etaze godami derzali ...
Klient wsegda praw ...
Mozet posmotrite kakie yiliteli iakustiku ispol'zujut poklonniki Deep Purple , Led Zeppelin ,Black Sabbath ,
Blackmore ,Dio ,Rainbow w 70 ...
I ot etogo popitas'ja ottolknutsja ? Dezibel tam ne men'sche , Golosa i instrumenti toze ne slabee ...
Zelaju yspexow
fadler

12.11.08 22:21
у меня дома 20 кв. м. поэтому домой я буду брать Dynaudio Contour s1.4 ( я надеюсь алефовцы дадут мне хорошую скидку)+ Lab Gruppen ip1350 + preamp (pimare pre30 ?) + Esoteric sa10. а на работе все хорошо - дины прогреваются (больше не гудят и верха стали мягче) марк абрамыч работает - не ломается, вот только дизайнер что-то мутит...
s.gerus

12.11.08 22:43
у меня дома 20 кв. м. поэтому домой я буду брать Dynaudio Contour s1.4 ( я надеюсь алефовцы дадут мне хорошую скидку)+ Lab Gruppen ip1350 + preamp (pimare pre30 ?) + Esoteric sa10. а на работе все хорошо - дины прогреваются (больше не гудят и верха стали мягче) марк абрамыч работает - не ломается, вот только дизайнер что-то мутит...
http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/systems/lines/contour/contour_data.php
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/dynaudio_contour_s14.htm
cena novix 3000$
я надеюсь алефовцы ...
Esli wi imeli wwidu Pass
http://www.stereotimes.com/amp051403.shtml
Price: $4,000 za x150 novij (t.e. b/y ili wistawichnij obrazec so skidkoj 2000$ )
Esli dadut skidku na novij produkt ( wi nazwalis' distributorom Pass LAB w Rossii) ,mozet int150
Po cene stikuetsja
Po korreljazii muzike (priwedennij wami primer) ,ysilitel',kolonki sudit' ne berus'
Wsex yspexow
http://www.dynaudio.com/eng/systems/lines/contour/contour_data.php
http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/dynaudio_contour_s14.htm
cena novix 3000$
я надеюсь алефовцы ...
Esli wi imeli wwidu Pass
http://www.stereotimes.com/amp051403.shtml
Price: $4,000 za x150 novij (t.e. b/y ili wistawichnij obrazec so skidkoj 2000$ )
Esli dadut skidku na novij produkt ( wi nazwalis' distributorom Pass LAB w Rossii) ,mozet int150
Po cene stikuetsja
Po korreljazii muzike (priwedennij wami primer) ,ysilitel',kolonki sudit' ne berus'
Wsex yspexow
s.gerus

12.11.08 22:51
, вот только дизайнер что-то мутит...
Wam nrawit'sja Lexus ? Oni rabotajut wmeste s Mark Levinson
Design waschej kwartiri ,wascha maschina ,stil' zisni i muzika ...
Podumajte i wi najdete .
Esli woprosi korreljazii designa stawjatsja wisoko ,to k primeru
design nize ne dlja Passa i ne dlja ML ,Dynaudio
http://www.fourseasons.com/paris/guest_rooms_and_suites/empire_suite.html
http://www.fourseasons.com/paris/guest_rooms_and_suites/english_suite.html
PASS eto skoree villi Neutri ,mozet Miss van der Rohe
http://www.tugendhat-villa.cz/html.en/
Wam nrawit'sja Lexus ? Oni rabotajut wmeste s Mark Levinson
Design waschej kwartiri ,wascha maschina ,stil' zisni i muzika ...
Podumajte i wi najdete .
Esli woprosi korreljazii designa stawjatsja wisoko ,to k primeru
design nize ne dlja Passa i ne dlja ML ,Dynaudio
http://www.fourseasons.com/paris/guest_rooms_and_suites/empire_suite.html
http://www.fourseasons.com/paris/guest_rooms_and_suites/english_suite.html
PASS eto skoree villi Neutri ,mozet Miss van der Rohe
http://www.tugendhat-villa.cz/html.en/
s.gerus

12.11.08 23:05
Dlaj 1.4 est' Pass i pomen'sche moschnsotju w Klasse A po 30 wt ,no cena budet ne mesch'e chem 2*150 AB
Dlja swoego distributora (wi im predstawilis' wische ) oni nawernjaka najdut chto-to podxodjaschee ...
Ob brat 'klass A ili AB ,zawisit ot dinamiki muz.materiala Schopen -skoree A -chistota pri nebolsc'hoj dinamike
R.Wagner - AB ,s kakim sootnoscheniem A k AB eto wopros
X350.5 40 watt a / 350 AB
Monarchy Audio 50 watt A/ 250 AB
Esli wi distributor ,wam sdelajut to otnoschenie kotoroe nado
http://passlabs.com/products.htm
Wsex yspexow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjcAXvnWPdM
Dlja swoego distributora (wi im predstawilis' wische ) oni nawernjaka najdut chto-to podxodjaschee ...
Ob brat 'klass A ili AB ,zawisit ot dinamiki muz.materiala Schopen -skoree A -chistota pri nebolsc'hoj dinamike
R.Wagner - AB ,s kakim sootnoscheniem A k AB eto wopros
X350.5 40 watt a / 350 AB
Monarchy Audio 50 watt A/ 250 AB
Esli wi distributor ,wam sdelajut to otnoschenie kotoroe nado
http://passlabs.com/products.htm
Wsex yspexow
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjcAXvnWPdM
s.gerus

12.11.08 23:08
Lab Gruppen ip1350
dlja sprawki ceni w Germanii
http://www.music-town.de/Beschallungstechnik/Verst%C3%83%C2%A4rker/LABGRUPPEN-iP1350-Professionelle-Stereo-Leistungsendstufe-2x-500-W-4Ohm-2HE::20359.html
1315 ewro
dlja sprawki ceni w Germanii
http://www.music-town.de/Beschallungstechnik/Verst%C3%83%C2%A4rker/LABGRUPPEN-iP1350-Professionelle-Stereo-Leistungsendstufe-2x-500-W-4Ohm-2HE::20359.html
1315 ewro
s.gerus

12.11.08 23:21
Pass Aleph 30 manual http://passlabs.com/products.htm
ass Product Philosophy and Design Theory
When I started designing amplifiers 25 years ago, solid state amplifiers had just achieved a
firm grasp on the market. Power and harmonic distortion numbers were king, and the largest
audio magazine said that amplifiers with the same specs sounded the same.
We have heard Triodes, Pentodes, Bipolar, VFET, Mosfet, TFET valves, IGBT, Hybrids, THD
distortion, IM distortion, TIM distortion, phase distortion, quantization, feedback, nested
feedback, no feedback, feed forward, Stasis, harmonic time alignment, high slew, Class AB,
Class A, Pure Class A, Class AA, Class A/AB, Class D, Class H, Constant bias, dynamic bias,
optical bias, Real Life Bias, Sustained Plateau Bias, big supplies, smart supplies, regulated
supplies, separate supplies, switching supplies, dynamic headroom, high current, balanced
inputs and balanced outputs.
Apart from digitally recorded source material, things have not changed very much in twenty
five years. Solid state amplifiers still dominate the market, the largest audio magazine still
doesn't hear the difference, and many audiophiles are still hanging on to their tubes. Leaving
aside the examples of marketing hype, we have a large number of attempts to improve the
sound of amplifiers, each attempting to address a hypothesized flaw in the performance.
Audiophiles have voted on the various designs with their pocketbooks, and products go down
in history as classics or are forgotten. The used market speaks eloquently: Marantz 9's
command a high price, while Dyna 120's are largely unwanted.
So far there has been a failure in the attempt to use specifications to characterize the
subtleties of sonic performance. Amplifiers with similar measurements are not equal, and
products with higher power, wider bandwidth, and lower distortion do not necessarily sound
better. Historically, that amplifier offering the most power, or the lowest IM distortion, or the
lowest THD, or the highest slew rate, or the lowest noise, has not become a classic or even
been more than a modest success.
For a long time there has been faith in the technical community that eventually some objective
analysis would reconcile critical listener's subjective experience with laboratory measurement.
Perhaps this will occur, but in the meantime, audiophiles largely reject bench specifications as
an indicator of audio quality. This is appropriate. Appreciation of audio is a subjective human
experience. We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we would let chemical
analysis be the arbiter of fine wines. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but
are no substitute for human judgment.
As in art, classic audio components are the results of individual efforts and reflect a coherent
underlying philosophy. They make a subjective and an objective statement of quality which is
meant to be appreciated. It is essential that the circuitry of an audio component reflects a
philosophy which address the subjective nature of its performance first and foremost.
Lacking an ability to completely characterize performance in an objective manner, we should
take a step back from the resulting waveform and take into account the process by which it
has been achieved. The history of what has been done to the music is important and must be
considered a part of the result. Everything that has been done to the signal is embedded in it,
however subtly.
Experience correlating what sounds good to knowledge of component design yields some
general guidelines as to what will sound good and what will not:
1) Simplicity and a minimum number of components is a key element, and is well reflected in
the quality of tube designs. The fewer pieces in series with the signal path, the better. This
often true even if adding just one more gain stage will improve the measured specs.
2) The characteristic of gain devices and their specific use is important. Individual variations
in performance between like devices is important, as are differences in topological usage. All
signal bearing devices contribute to the degradation, but there are some different
characteristics are worth attention. Low order nonlinearities are largely additive in quality,
bringing false warmth and coloration, while abrupt high order nonlinearities are additive and
subtractive, adding harshness while losing information.
3) Maximum intrinsic linearity is desired. This is the performance of the gain stages before
feedback is applied. Experience suggests that feedback is a subtractive process; it removes
information from the signal. In many older designs, poor intrinsic linearity has been corrected
out by large application of feedback, resulting in loss of warmth, space, and detail.
High idle current, or bias, is very desirable as a means of maximizing linearity, and gives an
effect which is not only easily measured, but easily demonstrated: Take a Class A or other
high bias amplifier and compare the sound with full bias and with bias reduced. (Bias
adjustment is easily accomplished, as virtually every amplifier has a bias adjustment pot, but it
should be done very carefully). As an experiment it has the virtue of only changing the bias
and the expectations of the experimenter.
As the bias is reduced the perception of stage depth and ambiance will generally decrease.
This perception of depth is influenced by the raw quantity of bias current. If you continue to
increase the bias current far beyond the operating point, it appears that improvements are
made with bias currents which are much greater than the signal level. Typically the levels
involved in most critical listening are only a few watts, but an amplifier biased for ten times
that amount will generally sound better than one biased for the few watts.
For this reason, designs which operate in what has been referred to as "pure" Class A are
preferred because their bias currents are much larger than the signal most of the time. As
mentioned, preamp gain stages and the front ends of power amplifiers are routinely single
ended "pure" Class A, and because the signal levels are at small fractions of a watt, the
efficiency of the circuit is not important.
4) Given the assumption that every process that we perform on the signal will be heard, the
finest amplifiers must employ those processes which are most natural. There is one element
in the chain which we cannot alter or improve upon, and that is the air. Air defines sound, and
serves as a natural benchmark.
Virtually all the amplifiers on the market are based on a push-pull symmetry model. The push-
pull symmetry topology has no particular basis in nature. Is it valid to use air's characteristic
as a model for designing an amplifier? If you accept that all processing leaves its signature
on the music, the answer is yes.
ass Product Philosophy and Design Theory
When I started designing amplifiers 25 years ago, solid state amplifiers had just achieved a
firm grasp on the market. Power and harmonic distortion numbers were king, and the largest
audio magazine said that amplifiers with the same specs sounded the same.
We have heard Triodes, Pentodes, Bipolar, VFET, Mosfet, TFET valves, IGBT, Hybrids, THD
distortion, IM distortion, TIM distortion, phase distortion, quantization, feedback, nested
feedback, no feedback, feed forward, Stasis, harmonic time alignment, high slew, Class AB,
Class A, Pure Class A, Class AA, Class A/AB, Class D, Class H, Constant bias, dynamic bias,
optical bias, Real Life Bias, Sustained Plateau Bias, big supplies, smart supplies, regulated
supplies, separate supplies, switching supplies, dynamic headroom, high current, balanced
inputs and balanced outputs.
Apart from digitally recorded source material, things have not changed very much in twenty
five years. Solid state amplifiers still dominate the market, the largest audio magazine still
doesn't hear the difference, and many audiophiles are still hanging on to their tubes. Leaving
aside the examples of marketing hype, we have a large number of attempts to improve the
sound of amplifiers, each attempting to address a hypothesized flaw in the performance.
Audiophiles have voted on the various designs with their pocketbooks, and products go down
in history as classics or are forgotten. The used market speaks eloquently: Marantz 9's
command a high price, while Dyna 120's are largely unwanted.
So far there has been a failure in the attempt to use specifications to characterize the
subtleties of sonic performance. Amplifiers with similar measurements are not equal, and
products with higher power, wider bandwidth, and lower distortion do not necessarily sound
better. Historically, that amplifier offering the most power, or the lowest IM distortion, or the
lowest THD, or the highest slew rate, or the lowest noise, has not become a classic or even
been more than a modest success.
For a long time there has been faith in the technical community that eventually some objective
analysis would reconcile critical listener's subjective experience with laboratory measurement.
Perhaps this will occur, but in the meantime, audiophiles largely reject bench specifications as
an indicator of audio quality. This is appropriate. Appreciation of audio is a subjective human
experience. We should no more let numbers define audio quality than we would let chemical
analysis be the arbiter of fine wines. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but
are no substitute for human judgment.
As in art, classic audio components are the results of individual efforts and reflect a coherent
underlying philosophy. They make a subjective and an objective statement of quality which is
meant to be appreciated. It is essential that the circuitry of an audio component reflects a
philosophy which address the subjective nature of its performance first and foremost.
Lacking an ability to completely characterize performance in an objective manner, we should
take a step back from the resulting waveform and take into account the process by which it
has been achieved. The history of what has been done to the music is important and must be
considered a part of the result. Everything that has been done to the signal is embedded in it,
however subtly.
Experience correlating what sounds good to knowledge of component design yields some
general guidelines as to what will sound good and what will not:
1) Simplicity and a minimum number of components is a key element, and is well reflected in
the quality of tube designs. The fewer pieces in series with the signal path, the better. This
often true even if adding just one more gain stage will improve the measured specs.
2) The characteristic of gain devices and their specific use is important. Individual variations
in performance between like devices is important, as are differences in topological usage. All
signal bearing devices contribute to the degradation, but there are some different
characteristics are worth attention. Low order nonlinearities are largely additive in quality,
bringing false warmth and coloration, while abrupt high order nonlinearities are additive and
subtractive, adding harshness while losing information.
3) Maximum intrinsic linearity is desired. This is the performance of the gain stages before
feedback is applied. Experience suggests that feedback is a subtractive process; it removes
information from the signal. In many older designs, poor intrinsic linearity has been corrected
out by large application of feedback, resulting in loss of warmth, space, and detail.
High idle current, or bias, is very desirable as a means of maximizing linearity, and gives an
effect which is not only easily measured, but easily demonstrated: Take a Class A or other
high bias amplifier and compare the sound with full bias and with bias reduced. (Bias
adjustment is easily accomplished, as virtually every amplifier has a bias adjustment pot, but it
should be done very carefully). As an experiment it has the virtue of only changing the bias
and the expectations of the experimenter.
As the bias is reduced the perception of stage depth and ambiance will generally decrease.
This perception of depth is influenced by the raw quantity of bias current. If you continue to
increase the bias current far beyond the operating point, it appears that improvements are
made with bias currents which are much greater than the signal level. Typically the levels
involved in most critical listening are only a few watts, but an amplifier biased for ten times
that amount will generally sound better than one biased for the few watts.
For this reason, designs which operate in what has been referred to as "pure" Class A are
preferred because their bias currents are much larger than the signal most of the time. As
mentioned, preamp gain stages and the front ends of power amplifiers are routinely single
ended "pure" Class A, and because the signal levels are at small fractions of a watt, the
efficiency of the circuit is not important.
4) Given the assumption that every process that we perform on the signal will be heard, the
finest amplifiers must employ those processes which are most natural. There is one element
in the chain which we cannot alter or improve upon, and that is the air. Air defines sound, and
serves as a natural benchmark.
Virtually all the amplifiers on the market are based on a push-pull symmetry model. The push-
pull symmetry topology has no particular basis in nature. Is it valid to use air's characteristic
as a model for designing an amplifier? If you accept that all processing leaves its signature
on the music, the answer is yes.
fadler

12.11.08 23:34
к сожалению эта модель больше не выпускается
s.gerus

13.11.08 16:57
Wi ykazali wische chto wi distributor PASS Labs w Rossii
W etom sluschae
Obratites' k Passu ,wam najdut -staruju ,nowuju kotoraja ee zamenjaet , second hand w xoroschem sostojanii , model' w kit ( sobrat' samomu) s bol'schoj skidkoj &
Y awtora ne woznikalo problem obratit'sja k chefu Christie , Diane Vishnevoj ,Chefu Delamain , konstruktoru Bugatti Vejron , Chefu konstruktoru Mersedes s600 (g.Maxelon ) &
Y was sootwetstwenno toze ne dolzno ,tem bolee wi swjazanni po rodu swoej aktiwnosti s PASS
CONTACT INFORMATION
Mailing Address
First Watt
c/o General Amplifier,
PO Box 7607,
Reno NV 89510-7607
E-Mail
For general questions, price and availability etc. you may email Mark (mark@firstwatt.com) or phone him at: 775-829-7332
For technical questions not answered by reading all the information in this web site contact Nelson Pass (nelson@passlabs.com)
http://www.firstwatt.com/contact.htm
http://www.passlabs.com/
Wsex yspexow
W etom sluschae
Obratites' k Passu ,wam najdut -staruju ,nowuju kotoraja ee zamenjaet , second hand w xoroschem sostojanii , model' w kit ( sobrat' samomu) s bol'schoj skidkoj &
Y awtora ne woznikalo problem obratit'sja k chefu Christie , Diane Vishnevoj ,Chefu Delamain , konstruktoru Bugatti Vejron , Chefu konstruktoru Mersedes s600 (g.Maxelon ) &
Y was sootwetstwenno toze ne dolzno ,tem bolee wi swjazanni po rodu swoej aktiwnosti s PASS
CONTACT INFORMATION
Mailing Address
First Watt
c/o General Amplifier,
PO Box 7607,
Reno NV 89510-7607
For general questions, price and availability etc. you may email Mark (mark@firstwatt.com) or phone him at: 775-829-7332
For technical questions not answered by reading all the information in this web site contact Nelson Pass (nelson@passlabs.com)
http://www.firstwatt.com/contact.htm
http://www.passlabs.com/
Wsex yspexow
fadler

13.11.08 22:48
надо не пассу звонить, а Диме. Дима, имей совесть, вези Pass и Stradivari
s.gerus

14.11.08 01:13
Итак, расслабьтесь, и насладитесь работой вашего усилителя. Если возникнут проблемы или вопросы, звоните нам. Нельсон лично отвечает на письма по электронной почте: nelson@passlabs.com, спрашивайте, не стесняясь, и давайте ваши комментарии. Спасибо за покупку
http://www.hifiaudio.ru/catalog.php?id=6
http://www.hifiaudio.ru/catalog.php?id=6
fadler

14.11.08 15:26
до боли знакомый cайт (www.hifiaudio.ru)
fadler

15.11.08 22:22
все больше не могу, завтра точно поставлю Primare pre30 к Марку331 (регулировать громкость на цапе надоело, да и винил не подключить)
fadler

17.11.08 21:39
сегодня поставил Primare Pre30 и CD31 (вместо Esoteric p05/d05) . Результат - середина осталась, примерно, той же, а вот баса стало больше, и он стал четче.
получается, комплект за 200000р. переиграл комплект за 300000р.
отсюда вывод - надо было заказывать не Esoteric p05/d05, a Esoteric x05 - 174000p.
получается, комплект за 200000р. переиграл комплект за 300000р.
отсюда вывод - надо было заказывать не Esoteric p05/d05, a Esoteric x05 - 174000p.